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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  August 5, 2011 1:00am-3:00am EDT

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give him a lap dance for me. >> maybe in segment two. a lot to talk about, including the warren jeffs verdict. the washington deal, that put jobs in jeopardy. got to begin with the breaking news on the story being felt around the country and the world. today's market meltdown, right now, early signs on what tomorrow might bring here. japan's nikkei index open sharply when it opened. shares down all across asia. that's on top of today's plunge in new york. the dow industrials down 500. the worst single-day point loss since the economy collapsed three years ago, in the ninth-worst ever. the s&p and nasdaq down heavily, as well. investors turning shares into cash. gold into cash. commodities into cash. the dow industrials havenow lost more than 1300 points over the last 2 weeks. it's been brutal. they've now erased the gains for the entire year. eight months of gains, gone.
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a plunge like the one today is something else. here's how it looked and sounded from the market floor. >> yesterday's gains, they were just a mirage. we're watching stocks plunge, chipping away at investor confidence. we're seeing the pace of selling for the dow pick up steam. >> this is a market you need to pay attention to when you have a steep decline like we're seeing right now. >> 370 points. plunging here. 407 massive plunge. continuing to take this massive plunge. >> we're close to two-times as bad as the worst day we had this year. >> you see the people up there applauding. i imagine a lot of people looking at these numbers at home, not applauding at all. >> it was a rough day. i stopped watching it after a while. it seems in part because investors are worried about conditions in other places. today it was italy and spain. tomorrow, it snaps back to the u.s. economy. the labor department comes out with jobless numbers. some experts say this is a lousy time to cut government spending.
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others saying the cuts don't go far enough. here to lend some perspective, ali velshi, chrystia freeland. and david walker, currently heading up the comeback america initiative. ali, there were people who said today's sell-off was a reaction to the debt ceiling deal. you actually disagree. >> i do disagree. markets don't take four days to respond to a deal. this was about the european central bank trying to prop up the euro by buying bonds back. it send the wrong message and ended up with folks in europe ended up panicking. italy, the eighth-largest economy in the world has a serious debt problem. and europe is too big to fail. let's put it that way. they can't let europe go. they can't let italy go. and europe doesn't have enough money to back it up and spain up. you identified it well. every day, it's a different problem. and everybody gets to own it. tomorrow, it will be back to the united states and unemployment. but today, it was about europe. but generally, it's a mix of international global concern that's adding to the confusion. it all came together and just built and created this momentum
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today. very unusual. and a little bit weird. but that's what did it. >> chrystia, what message do you think the markets were sending? >> well, i think ali is absolutely right. the immediate trigger was europe. and the european central bank handled things badly. but the bigger message here is america has spent the summer debating exactly the wrong issue. the markets are not principally concerned about the credit worthiness of the united states. they're not principally concerned about the deficit. and evidence of that is right now the ten-year treasury bill is at about 2.5%. that means people are lending money to the u.s. at 2.5%. i don't know about you, anderson. but i would be happy to take out a loan at 2.5%. there's not a credit worthiness issue. the real worry is, the whole world is concerned that the industrialized west has not recovered from the economic crisis of 2008. and that there is this generalized economic weakness in the united states, in europe, that we are still incredibly
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frail. and i think there is a real danger of a double-dip recession. >> david, we're hearing a lot of people now talking about a double-dip recession. do you think these fears are justified? >> i think there's a chance we could have it. i hope we avoid it. and i believe right now, it's possible, not probable. there's two things people are concerned about. first, weak economic recovery. high unemployment. personal income is barely growing at all. consumption is very weak. consumer confidence is also very weak. and then, you've got spain and italy with their own debt problems. and quite frankly, we've got more time than they do. but when you look at our ratios of debt to gdp, we're in the same neighborhood they are. so, we need to do things to get the economy going and dealing with unemployment. we need to put our own finances in order, or we're going to have bigger problems down the road. >> ali, i didn't even want to look at my stocks or 401(k). for folks worried about that, what's your advice? >> it is tough. i almost agree with you. there wasn't much you were going to be able to do about it today, anyway. >> not that i would know what to
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do anyway. >> there you go. stock returns on the dow have been erased. but you know what? we're up from a year ago. the s&p is up from a year ago. as serious as this seems, it actually was triggered by a little bit of irrational thought and irrational behavior. i'm not sure this is a long-term trend. i think there's been a lot of things that have caused people to sell their stocks in the last two weeks. i think you're going to start to have people saying, maybe this is overdone. >> chrystia, you're seeing positive developments in the market. >> i think depending on where you are in the economy, one positive signal to come out of this is, it looks like interest rates are not going to go up for a long time. and in fact, what the markets are counting on right now is ben bernanke to bail them out. and people are talking about qe-3. you know, yet another round of quantitative easing. if you don't have a house, if you want to borrow money, if you're a company, a small business or a person, it looks like interest rates are not going to go up anytime soon. >> david, it does seem like businesses have cash on hand.
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they're just holding on to it, right? doesn't something need to spur them to start spending? or am i totally offbase? >> there's trillions hanging on corporate balance sheets. i mean, they need more certainty with regard to what the tax environment is going to be. the regulatory environment is going to be. one of the things we ought to think about, we need comprehensive tax reform. maybe we should think of allowing a deduction for corporate dividends. so, shareholder pressure will be there to say, you're either going to investment for growth and jobs, or you're going to distribute it for growth and jobs. right now, we're at a stalemate. >> do you guys agree with it? >> i think it's a good idea. i would like to push back against something that david said earlier. in the medium term, the u.s. still needs now to be focused on deficits. that's the message of italy and spain. i think the message of this week is that the whole world, starting with the united states, needs to be focused on job creation and doing what you were referring to, anderson.
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persuading companies. stimulating them, coming up with creative ideas to get companies investing that money they have on their balance sheets. >> david, politicians have been talking about job creation for the last couple of years. right before they took off for five weeks, they were talking about focusing like lasers on jobs, jobs, jobs. and yet, how much can government do? >> government doesn't create jobs that last for the long-term. but they do things that can create an environment, both from a tax policy standpoint, a regulatory policy standpoint, and everything else that will encourage others to create jobs. let me be clear. right now, we need to focus on making sure we don't have a double-dip recession. and to make sure we can get unemployment down. at the same time, we also need to start taking steps to deal with our structural deficits. we don't want to significantly cut spending now because that's contrary to the first objective. we need to do something about entitlement programs, spending and tax policies that will put us on a prudent and sustainable path.
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we need to do both. one now. and the other steps that we take now that will phased in over time. or else, we're going to have bigger problems down the road. >> the problem, and david knows this better than anyone. the problem is, what david's saying makes sense. but there were a whole lot of people who voted against raising that debt ceiling because they don't think you need to increase or even keep spending at the level that it's at now to create jobs. so, i don't know how, given what we just went through with the debt ceiling debate, we would get any agreement whatsoever in congress to do any of the stuff you're talking about, david, or the stuff that chrystia's talking about, more spending from the government. unlike during the financial crisis, the federal reserve can't do that anymore on its own. it needs congressional approval. so, the danger we have right now, we're probably headed for, between now and the election, for complete gridlock and inability for the government to do anything to create a environment to invest and create jobs. >> the only thing i would say, ali, is i think shocks like today, have to get politicians thinking.
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and anderson pointed to the fact we've heard rhetoric of being laser-focused on jobs. we've seen very little concrete action. we could see an extension of the payroll tax break. >> that could help, yeah. >> we could see things that economist bob schiller has suggested, to give businesses tax incentives. he suggested $5,000 for each new person hired. let's see the politicians talk about that. >> david, i want to give you the final thought. >> we need to focus on economic growth and jobs now. and we need -- we have to look at it, not just from a tax standpoint. we have to look at it from a regulatory standpoint. and frankly, the time may have come to consider significant recession to the affordable care act or repeal of the affordable care act. that's a big overhang, as well. and the center for medicare and medicaid services has reaffirmed what i've been saying for a while. that bill is going to cost us a tremendous amount of money. and it's going to exacerbate our deficit and debt problems. we ought to nip it in the bud
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before it's a reality. >> ali, appreciate it. chrystia freeland, thank you. david walker, we'll talk about that coming up. more, next, on how the sell-off could affect president obama next year. stunning new job approvals and disapproval numbers for congress. goes to what ali said about gridlock. and lawmakers finally agreed to fund the faa. we talked about this last night. they all went off on vacation while thousands of airport and construction jobs were on hold. while congress bickered. airline safety inspectors were told to use their credit cards to pay for expenses. later, judgment day for the polygamist leader, warren jeffs, on child rape charges. his bizarre defense. gary tuchman and mike watkiss and his last remaining lawyer, joins us, as well. use magnesium, llips' caplets an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks.
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the most powerful country in the world. and if the country cannot make decisions, about how it spends money, or how it deals with its basic problems, but instead, squabbles with scapegoating, finger-pointing and blaming, i think that is an ominous sign going forward. >> california governor, jerry brown. new polling from "the new york times" and c-best news, reflecting that sentiment. 14% approve of the job lawmakers in washington is doing. athletes foot polls higher than congress. and president obama's job approval rating is 48%, which is slightly better than last fall. the pivotal state of florida shows president obama in a dead-heat with mitt romney. and again, we get new numbers tomorrow on job creation. and the economic forecast doesn't look good. joining us now, gloria bolger. cornell belcher. and erick erickson.
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erick, there's been so much focus on the long-term spending problem. the debt ceiling fight. our problem right now is a weak economy, it seems like. >> you know, anderson, it's been frustrating for me, during some of the conversations on the debt ceiling during the past two weeks. journalists in washington focused on the stock market, as if the debt ceiling had everything to do with it. for example, last friday, the stock market fell. the reporting out of washington, it was the uncertainty over the debt ceiling. the growth numbers came back horrible. they were expecting 1.6% growth. it was 1.3%. they were downgraded last quarter. there's a sense in washington that everything revolves around washington. it's always been about the economy. and it's going to keep being about the economy. if there's a bright lining, and a silver lining, and there's not really one, is most of the problems in the stock market are about europe and other places. >> cornell, for president obama, this is a huge issue. he's been talking about a big job push. how much can he really do?
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i mean, where do you see him going with this? >> well, i'm going to agree with my friend, erick, before i attack him. the thing is, you know, we've been focused for the last month on deficit and cuts. we did that and joe blow middle america scratched their head. they're worried about putting gas in their car. however, we've been focused completely on the deficit and not jobs and the economy because of the tea party element, sort of used the debt ceiling as a hostage-taking maneuver, in order to focus on the deficit. and the bottom line is, the deficit hasn't laid off one worker. the deficit hasn't closed one factory and shipped it overseas. the deficit hasn't foreclosed on one house. that's why you see those disapproval numbers the way they are right now because washington isn't focused on jobs right now. they've been focusing on the deficit like an obsession. >> go ahead, gloria. >> i think that washington was
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focusing on the deficit because when you look at the polling numbers, and this goes for the white house, as well as republicans in congress and democrats in congress. people said they cared about the deficit. and so, what you saw and the last election was a reaction against the perceived big spending of barack obama, right? and the stimulus. they do a pendulum swing back. they talk about, we're going to cut the deficit and have some stability in the economy, so wall street will react. and of course, as erick, pointed out, wall street discounted it, because they figured when they folk up one day, we would raise the debt ceiling. it was a miscalculation. >> i have to push back on you a little, gloria. i haven't seen poll where's the deficit ranks higher for voters than the economy and jobs. that's not just now. but going back even before the elections. i think americans have been focused on jobs and economy like a laser beam. but washington has not.
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they've been focused on the deficit and spending. >> erick, when you hear politicians on both sides talking about, we're focused on jobs, do you believe they can create jobs? >> no. that's a lot of what plays into this. i remember election night on 2010. most of the democrats on cnn that night, say they believed they got the policy right and the message wrong, which ironically is what a lot of republicans are saying right now. but there was reaction i think among the voters. and exit polls show that people thought the policy was wrong. and washington thought spending was the problem. when politicians say what government can do for you, i grab my wallet and run. i don't believe that washington can create jobs. and if people do believe that washington can create jobs, look at the two years that the democrats controlled the congress and the white house and passed the stimulus plan. it didn't create jobs. it killed jobs in the private sector, according to economists and a study out of the university of ohio. >> i have to push back on that a little bit. it is standard economic policy. this ideal that if you take money out of the economy right
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now, you're going to slow growth. it's the same sort of thing we saw back in the great depression with fdr. they took money out of the economy and it slowed down. and they had to rebound and try to fix that. right now, the markets are reacting because they know we're slashing and taking a lot of money out of the economy for ideological purpose. and the economy's going to slow down because of it. >> but that's barack obama's political problem, though, isn't it? on the one hand, he wants to be pro-growth. on the other hand, he's embraced fiscal restraint. so, can he now turn around and say, okay. we have to give money for payroll tax holiday, unemployment insurance, infrastructure bank, et cetera, et cetera. maybe business tax credits. you know, it's very difficult because the public will say, which side of this fight are you on, right? and he's always tried to walk that fine line down the middle
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saying, we've got to restrain, you know, spending. but also, we have to spend in order to grow. and so, it's not a clear message. >> but there's a bigger problem here, as well. and i mean, not to quote jeremiah wright. but the chickens are coming home to roost for both parties right now. if you were to take 100% of the income of people making $250,000 a year or more. 100% of their income, you get $1.3 trillion. the budget deficit is $1.6 trillion. unless we go after the middle class and find money there, as well, we're going to have to make cuts. if we're not going to make them now because it will hurt the economy, are we going to rebound bill clinton's chief of economic counsel, laura tyson, because washington can't get its act together one way or another. >> you're going to quote a clinton economic adviser. i'm now going to quote a reagan economic adviser. who said, you know, it's ridiculous. ronald reagan would do today what he did back then and raise revenues. you cannot get to -- you cannot get at this problem without raising revenues. >> are you talking about david
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stockton? >> you cannot cut this problem away. >> ronald reagan would have raised the debt ceiling, too. >> erick, do you believe ronald reagan would have raised revenues? >> i don't think he would have raised taxes, not in a situation like this. remember, he jump-started the economy, in '84, by the big tax cuts. but revenue came in through the tax cuts. but the problem is, if you did this, though, we're at $14 trillion of national debt now. and this plan goes into effect, as designed, we'll add another $12 trillion. at what point are we bankrupt? >> but he did raise revenues. and here's my question to republicans. you know, what was so wrong to going back to the tax and spending policies of bill clinton? remember peace and prosperity? >> i have the answer to this one, cornell. >> okay. >> let's say we go back to clinton's tax breaks. we go back to clinton's economy, by the way, which brought more revenue into the government than any other time in american history. that was still only 21% of gross domestic product.
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and the government is spending 27% of gross domestic product. so, the government will have to cut 5% to equal the tax revenue. >> when the economy grows, you get more revenues, right? >> exactly. but historically, gloria, from the moment the income tax was implemented in the early 1900s until now, the most the government has seen in tax revenue has been 21%. the most ever in this country's history has been 21%. we're spending 27% of gross domestic product. >> cornell, i have to give you the final thought here. >> we can't cut away, cut ourselves to a solution here. and certainly we can't cut away our future, which is what we threaten to do when we start to cut away pell grants and lunch programs and the things that build our future. we have to win the future. we can't cut that away. >> cornell belcher, gloria borger, erick erickson. interesting, thank you. the jury in the warren jeffs assault trial reaches a verdict, after one of the strangest legal arguments in history. we'll get the details in the courtroom. plus, what the verdict and
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possible life sentence means for the future of jeffs' polygamist sect. plus, disturbing reports that the military clampdown in syria is reaching a new level of brutality. the eagle flies at dawn. the monkey eats custard. price-line ne-go-ti-a-tor. so, you've been double crossed by other travel sites and now you want to try the real deal. yes, is it true that name your own price... ...got even easier? affirmative. we'll show you other people's winning hotel bids. so i'll know how much to bid... ...and save up to 60% i'm in i know the lady in leather travels on three wheels. wait, is that code? that's my secret weapon... ...naomi pryce see winning hotel bids now at priceline. be kind to your eyes with transitions lenses. transitions adapt to changing light so you see your whole day comfortably and conveniently
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109 people were killed in and around the city on the fourth day of ramadan. hamama is the center of the anti-government movement there. and there's been days of deadly crackdowns during demonstrations. one of the most does peitzed members of hosni mubarak's inner circle was in court today. he could be executed if he's convicted. and a vial of serial killer ted bundy's blood, could help solve some cold cases dating back as far as the 1960s. the vial has been recovered from an evidence lab in florida and will be entered in the fbi's dna system. bundy was executed for murders. dna typing was not used. >> i would think that they would have his blood in storage. great they were able to find some. breaking news, we're following a texas jury found polygamist sect leader, warren jeffs, guilty of two sexual
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assault charges on a child. they reached after four hours of argument. he spent most of his allotted 30 minutes completely silent. it was the latest jaw-dropping moment in a trial full of them. one of the most disturbing came yesterday when jurors heard an audiotape of jeffs supposedly having sex with a 12-year-old girl. you probably remember the raid. hundreds of kids were removed in that raid but later returned. jeffs who remains his a prophet, represented himself. and one point, he said that god would strike down everyone, if the trial continued. the same 12 jurors that convicted jeffs will also sentence him to possibly life in prison. the penalty phase has begun and is expected to last two or three days. let's talk to gary tuchman and mike watkiss, who has been covering jeffs for years. was the closing argument probably the most bizarre moment in this most bizarre of trials?
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>> reporter: strange trial. it was the strangest part of the trial, anderson. warren jeffs was told by the judge, you have 30 minutes for your closing arguments. he never denied the sexual assault charges. he got up for the closing arguments and was quiet for the first minute. he was quiet for five more minutes. never said a word. there were 200 people in the courtroom. we were looking at each other. the jurors were looking at jeffs. it was completely kwi for 24 minutes. then, warren jeffs turned to the right. and he looked every juror in the eye, completely creeped the jurors out. and then, he turned his head back to the judge. and he had a four-word quote. i am at peace. and then sat down. now, it's unlikely he would have been found not guilty in this case. but looking at the jurors like that, with that look, didn't help his case at all. >> mike, i was curious about your thoughts. gary has been reporting on this
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for us for years. you were following it for years before that. what did you think when you finally heard the verdict? >> well, i'm not a bit surprised in watching mr. jeffs' performance in the court today. i heard one of his standby lawyers that he meant no slight to the court with his silence. and i would strongly beg to differ. i think it shows his contempt and disdain for this process. his disdain for the charges. the jury, certainly the judge, barbara walter, who i think has shown extraordinary patience and really exemplary judicial wisdom in this matter. this is a woman he threatened and belittled. and what did he say? he said i am at peace. he's at peace, like he's the only person that matter here's. when he was in the courtroom, he never referred to the two young girls that he raped. the charges against him. it's another window on the soul of a totally self-possessed man.
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>> for the penalty phase, we should strap in our seat belts. what are you hearing? >> a source close to this case has told me, they had much greater latitude in the sentencing. basically, they would open up all the issues. the myriad of wrongdoing that mr. jeffs has committed to his own followers. his commitment is to the people that worship him. had families taken away. and kill themselves. the boys cast aside. they had to focus on the charges involving these two, young girls. now, they have much greater latitude. and this source tells me, you ain't seen nothing yet if you think this trial was gut-wrenching and bizarre because they have a lot greater flexibility to introduce a lot more evidence. >> gary, what do we know about the victims at the center of this case? >> yeah. the two victims, and this is a very interesting part of this case, did not testify. they got guilty verdicts without
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the victims testifying. they're now 16 and 21 years old in real life. they did not testify because they're scared to. we believe they're still members of the flds. you may wonder, how are they doing? we asked the attorney general of texas how are they doing? and he said, we have reason to believe they're safe. that means to me, there's a lot of good people in the flds that are not like warren jeffs. and they are with reasonable people, reasonable family members within flds. >> are there other trials elsewhere? >> well, there's five more men who are going to be tried here in the state of texas. four more men, excuse me. they've convicted seven. mr. jeffs is now the eighth. they're serving very significant prison terms. and the attorney general here in texas, greg abbott, said today, this is very much an ongoing investigation. for somebody who has been doing it for as long as i have, i hope that everybody sort of wakes up and recognizes that these are
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chronic and systematic abuses. and when the cameras go away and the satellite trucks go away, the guys will go back. and gary's right. i met some of the smartest, nicest people inside that community. but they have a real bad leadership. and they have always had bad leaders. i don't think there was a nuance or an utterance in that court that was new. this stuff has been going on for years. and hopefully, we have reached critical mass and people are going to start holding these men accountable. >> gary, you know, we've watched you over the years being chased off their territory. having doors slammed in your face. what did you think when you heard the verdict? >> no prize about the verdict. the surprise was that he represented himself and he came off looking very foolish and stupid. i mean, the fact is, when you represent yourself and all you keep saying over again -- it was like watching the movie "rainman," with dustin hoffman. he kept repeating over and over. myself, my religion. we speculated for years how many wives warren jeffs has. we don't know for sure.
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today, in the beginning of the sentences phase, we finally found out the answer. prosecutors revealed they believe warren jeffs has 79 wives. one legal wife. and 78 celestial wives. in addition to that, the prosecutor said 24 of his wives, 24 of his 79 wives, he married under the age of 18. >> gary, appreciate it. mike watkiss, thank you so much. more on the breaking news ahead. gary takes us inside a town where loyalty to warren jeffs runs to deep, that local police look the other way when flds crosses the line. a lot of them are members. he is still her client. also, four masked men who stormed the house of a florida couple, get their fate, for their role in a grisly double-murder. m that one day on the red hills of georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners
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gary tuchman, talking to one of warren jeffs' followers. she expects to get married and share her husband with sister wives, as many as he can get. a jury found the polygamist sex leader guilty of child sexual assault. jeffs could get a life sentence. what that may mean for his followers is uncertain. gary, as we were talking about earlier, has been following the story for years. and jeffs is determined to lead his church, the flds, from prison. jeffs used thousands of dollars worth of phone cards to stay in touch with church members. his followers are spread across several states in america. in towns like colorado city, arizona, even local law
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enforcement is loyal to jeffs and his sect. here's gary tuchman, once again. >> i've never seen it like this before. i've been here for seven years. and i've never seen things so unstable. so, lawless. i consider this the most lawless town in the country. >> reporter: sam brower is an investigator and writer, who has been following the polygamist sect closely for a decade. and has written a book on the flds, called "prophet's prey." could you compare them to the taliban? >> this community is run taliban-style. and that's really all the flds church is, in my opinion. is an organized crime family. >> reporter: breakaways say that
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kind of assertion is nonsense. that the followers who live here, want to be left alone, to practice their religion as they see fit. but real violence, according to some neighbors, has crept into the community. this burned out patch of grass in the town of colorado city, arizona, is evidence of what authorities say is a disturbing example. arizona state investigators say flds leaders burned dozens of books here, rather than let an open library be built. why? they believe those books were collected by infidels. >> they burnt things that didn't belong to them. >> reporter: former flds member, stephanie colgrove, said she worked for two years to collect books for the library. a library independent of the church. what did they do with the cooks? >> we assume they were burnt. we saw a massive bonfire and assume all of this is on the pile because we saw books in the
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burning pile. >> reporter: the library invaders didn't worry about covering their tracks. this is the remnants of one of the charred books. looks like a medical textbook. county investigators say the local police in colorado city are all members of the flds and have ignored the arson. those local police have not returned our calls. it's the county thoughts who have worked to crackdown on the church. you're with the county. and they're the local police. and normally, 99.9% of the time, police all work together. you don't work with these guys, do you? >> not at all. can't even get them to talk to me most of the time. >> reporter: that's because, according to mavavy, they obey church leaders first. in your eyes are their allegiance to the united states? or to the flds?
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>> they were promised to swear allegiance to warren in one of their church meetings not too long ago. >> reporter: when we asked police for a comment, they did not respond. gary tuchman, cnn, colorado city, arizona. warren jeffs dismissed his defense team. emily detoto was on that team. she joins me now, along with flora jesop. what was your reaction today to the verdict? >> i am elated. i'm happy for all of his victims. and for the many that he didn't get a chance to abuse because he has been in jail for five years. and i'm just looking forward to move forward and help as many of these women and children that we can. >> emily, today, jeffs stared
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down the judge and each jury member during his closing arguments. do you know why he did that? >> first of all, good evening. >> sorry. i was talking to his attorney. i'm sorry. just hold on, flora. >> okay. sorry. >> that's okay. >> first of all, good evening, anderson. >> hey. >> you stated that he stared down the judge and the jurors today. while i was not in the courtroom during his closing argument, i have spoken with several people who were, in fact, in the courtroom during that. during his closing argument. and i would have to disagree with your characterization of the fact that he stared them down. having spent as much time as i have with mr. jeffs, he is a very quiet person. and he actually thinks deeply before he speaks. and so -- >> he raped two children. and he's been convicted of raping two children. so, i mean, whether he stared down or -- he stared at the jurors for a significant amount of time in silence. do you know why he did that?
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>> well, i understand -- if we want to -- he is not a skilled trial lawyer, first of all. he has never given closing arguments before. never given opening statements before. never direct -- >> but he chose to act as a juror. you said he's a smart man and well thoughtout man. do you know why he thought out to stare at the jurors in silence? >> well, i believe -- i can't go behind his reasoning for looking each juror in the eye. but i can tell you, as a skilled trial lawyer, what i do when i approach closing arguments. is i engage each individual juror to acknowledge them before i speak to them. now, mr. jeffs is not a trial attorney. i cannot speak to why he would look each juror in the eye. but i can tell you, he's a man who thinks deeply before he opens his mouth. and, yes, he did choose to represent himself. that choice was knowingly, voluntarily undertaken.
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it's a choice i support. supported and do continue to support. but to characterize him as staring down the judge or the jury, i would disagree. >> do you think he deeply thought it out when he -- basically, when he seemed to make a threat or a veiled threat to the judge, or at least mocked her medical condition, the fact she had polio, when he referred to a wasting disease that would descend upon her? >> why i cannot speak to his reasoning behind the choice of words, i can direct you to various religious readings, where people who choose to persecute others, inevitably are stricken with diseases and/or death. that is all i will say on that topic. >> i don't understand what you just said. >> what i'm saying is i did not write the motion to recuse, the one that you're referring to where he allegedly threatened to bring down a disease on judge walther.
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what i can tell you, is my interaction, through my investigation with this case, and my exposure to different readings, religious readings, it has been shown throughout time that those who do choose to persecute others, inevitably befall something -- something. and i'll leave it at that. >> you're saying, based on your religious readings, you've discovered that people who persecute others get wasting diseases? >> no. what you're asking me is to speak behind warren jeffs words. >> you seem to know about his thought process by your own words. i'm wondering if you knew his thought process. you clearly don't. flora, do you understand what he was trying to do in court, by remaining silent? by staring down or at the jurors? by suggesting that the judge was going to get a wasting disease? a judge who experienced polio earlier in her life? >> you know, i found that to be
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very disturbing, anderson. and the quote -- the comments about judge walther. and as far as staring down the judge and the jury, you know, he is used to having 10,000 people do his bidding and bow at his feet. and i think he kind of maybe thought with his sermonizing and reading of his scripture, with his witness on the stand, that he maybe was thinking maybe he had convinced these people that he was doing his sacred, religious beliefs. that they needed to send him on home and quit this nonsense. the fact that there were ten women on that jury and the judge was a woman was the greatest of insults. to warren jeffs. >> emily, do you think he plans
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to appeal? >> well, he certainly has the right to appeal. i cannot foresee any reason why he would not choose to exercise that right to appeal. having been there from the beginning of this litigation, which began -- well, the beginning of my involvement, which was the second recusal hearing, which occurred on july 18th. said motion was denied on july 19th. i believe there's enough issues there in the record that would certainly merit an appeal. >> emily detoto, appreciate your time. flora jessop, thank you. four years after a gunman killed 32 people. campus alert, warning a man may be on campus with a gun. we'll tell you what happened. from abusive boyfriend to romantic comedy star. chris brown's surprising, new role. ater. we find the best, sweetest crab for red lobster we can find. yeah!
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my money. my choice. my meineke. i think i made that lawyer mad. coming up, chris brown's management team gets a spot on our "ridiculist". a tense day on the virginia tech campus. an alert was issued after a man was on campus, possibly carrying a gun. summer school students were told to stay indoors. and classes were canceled. after several hours of searching, no gunman was found and the alert was dropped. in 2007, you may recall, a gunman opened fire, fatally killing 32 people before killing himself. in florida, four men were accused in the deadly raid killing a couple. in 2009, the masked men stormed on to the property of byrd and melanie billings.
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the company was killed while their nine adopted special needs children were at home. chrysler is recalling almost 300,000 minivans because the air bags may deploy unexpectedly. the 2008 models of dodge grand caravan, chrysler town and country, and grand voyager. and scientists have found possible evidence that salt water exists on mars during its warmer months. that is raising chances that life exists on the red planet. they examine images from nasa's spacecraft orbiting mars that show dark lines that grow and shrink, depending on the season. this could indicate salt water there. big news, anderson. very exciting. time now for the "ridiculist". we're adding chris brown. he's waited too long, to act on a brilliant idea that's just now come to fruition. chris brown has been cast in a movie. but not just any movie, it's a
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romantic comedy, based on a self-help book about relationships. and i, forone, cannot imagine why this did not happen sooner. there's one thing you can say about chris brown, who is on probation, he just oozes romance. look at this post on youtube, five months after he threatened to kill her while her mouth was filled with blood. >> i cold rihanna countless times, that i'm truly sorry. that i wasn't able to handle the situation differently and better. >> would percy b. shelly have a more romantic sentiment? chris brown has the romance thing down. this is a romantic comedy, which is per spekt. the only thing chris brown does better than romance, is comedy. ask the folks at "good morning america." when chris brown broke a window and scared the hair and makeup people. that was hilariouses you. it was romantic when you think about it.
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his violent meltdown was inspired by a lady. robin roberts asked if he had seen rihanna since the restraining order was lifted. here's what the modern-day casanova said. >> today is the album day. that's what i'm focused on. >> it's like something straight out of "when harry met sally." and chris brown had sweet nothings for the "gma" crew, too. >> i was disappointed in the way i acted. >> he's wearing the glasses. he's serious. is there anything more sincere? there was the time chris brown called a bunch of photographers gay because he thought they called the police to give him a parking ticket. hmm? just like in "sleepless in seattle." then, he used horrific slurs about homosexuality and molestation.
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he apologized the next day. as a true romantic, chris brown knows it's good to keep mystery involved. the movie is called "think like a man." it's based on steve harvey's book, "think like a man, act like a lady." the movie is scheduled to come out in april, with chris brown's half-hearted apology coming out soon. we don't know what role he's going to play. but one thing is for sure. with chris brown attached to the project, the movie is sure to be a hit on the "ridiculist". we'll be right back. another good thing about geico is, they've got, like, real live people working there 24/7. so like say you need to report a claim, alright. a real person will be there to help you. then you can use geico.com to view photos of the damage, track your claim, print an estimate. you want an english muffin? they literally hand you a toasted muffin with butter and jam.
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> got to begin with the breaking news on the story being felt around the country and the world. today's market meltdown, right now, early signs on what tomorrow might bring here. japan's nikkei index open sharply when it opened. shares down all across asia. that's on top of today's plunge in new york. the dow industrials down 500. the worst single-day point loss since the economy collapsed three years ago, in the ninth-worst ever. the s&p and nasdaq down heavily, as well. investors turning shares into cash. gold into cash. commodities into cash. the dow industrials havenow lost
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more than 1300 points over the last 2 weeks. it's been brutal. they've now erased the gains for the entire year. eight months of gains, gone. a plunge like the one today is something else. here's how it looked and sounded from the market floor. >> yesterday's gains, they were just a mirage. we're watching stocks plunge, chipping away at investor confidence. we're seeing the pace of selling for the dow pick up steam. >> this is a market you need to pay attention to when you have a steep decline like we're seeing right now. >> 370 points. plunging here. 407 massive plunge. continuing to take this massive plunge. >> we're close to two-times as bad as the worst day we had this year.
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>> you see the people up there applauding. i imagine a lot of people looking at these numbers at home, not applauding at all. >> it was a rough day. i stopped watching it after a while. it seems in part because investors are worried about conditions in other places. today it was italy and spain. tomorrow, it snaps back to the u.s. economy. the labor department comes out with jobless numbers. some experts say this is a lousy time to cut government spending. others saying the cuts don't go far enough. here to lend some perspective, ali velshi, chrystia freeland. and david walker, currently heading up the comeback america initiative. ali, there were people who said today's sell-off was a reaction to the debt ceiling deal. you actually disagree. >> i do disagree. markets don't take four days to respond to a deal. this was about the european central bank trying to prop up the euro by buying bonds back. it send the wrong message and ended up with folks in europe ended up panicking. italy, the eighth-largest economy in the world has a serious debt problem. and europe is too big to fail. let's put it that way. they can't let europe go. they can't let italy go. and europe doesn't have enough money to back it up and spain up. you identified it well. every day, it's a different problem. and everybody gets to own it. tomorrow, it will be back to the united states and unemployment. but today, it was about europe. but generally, it's a mix of international global concern
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that's adding to the confusion. it all came together and just built and created this momentum today. very unusual. and a little bit weird. but that's what did it. >> chrystia, what message do you think the markets were sending? >> well, i think ali is absolutely right. the immediate trigger was europe. and the european central bank handled things badly. but the bigger message here is america has spent the summer debating exactly the wrong issue. the markets are not principally concerned about the credit worthiness of the united states. they're not principally concerned about the deficit. and evidence of that is right now the ten-year treasury bill is at about 2.5%. that means people are lending
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money to the u.s. at 2.5%. i don't know about you, anderson. but i would be happy to take out a loan at 2.5%. there's not a credit worthiness issue. the real worry is, the whole world is concerned that the industrialized west has not recovered from the economic crisis of 2008. and that there is this generalized economic weakness in the united states, in europe, that we are still incredibly frail. and i think there is a real danger of a double-dip recession. >> david, we're hearing a lot of people now talking about a double-dip recession. do you think these fears are justified? >> i think there's a chance we could have it. i hope we avoid it. and i believe right now, it's possible, not probable. there's two things people are concerned about. first, weak economic recovery. high unemployment. personal income is barely growing at all. consumption is very weak. consumer confidence is also very weak. and then, you've got spain and italy with their own debt problems. and quite frankly, we've got more time than they do. but when you look at our ratios of debt to gdp, we're in the same neighborhood they are.
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so, we need to do things to get the economy going and dealing with unemployment. we need to put our own finances in order, or we're going to have bigger problems down the road. >> ali, i didn't even want to look at my stocks or 401(k). for folks worried about that, what's your advice? >> it is tough. i almost agree with you. there wasn't much you were going to be able to do about it today, anyway. >> not that i would know what to do anyway.
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>> there you go. stock returns on the dow have been erased. but you know what? we're up from a year ago. the s&p is up from a year ago. as serious as this seems, it actually was triggered by a little bit of irrational thought and irrational behavior. i'm not sure this is a long-term trend. i think there's been a lot of things that have caused people to sell their stocks in the last two weeks. i think you're going to start to have people saying, maybe this is overdone. >> chrystia, you're seeing positive developments in the market. >> i think depending on where you are in the economy, one positive signal to come out of this is, it looks like interest rates are not going to go up for a long time. and in fact, what the markets are counting on right now is ben bernanke to bail them out. and people are talking about qe-3. you know, yet another round of quantitative easing. if you don't have a house, if you want to borrow money, if you're a company, a small business or a person, it looks like interest rates are not going to go up anytime soon. >> david, it does seem like businesses have cash on hand. they're just holding on to it, right? doesn't something need to spur them to start spending? or am i totally offbase? >> there's trillions hanging on corporate balance sheets. i mean, they need more certainty with regard to what the tax environment is going to be. the regulatory environment is going to be. one of the things we ought to think about, we need comprehensive tax reform. maybe we should think of allowing a deduction for
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corporate dividends. so, shareholder pressure will be there to say, you're either going to investment for growth and jobs, or you're going to distribute it for growth and jobs. right now, we're at a stalemate. >> do you guys agree with it? >> i thinkt'a odde thk e sse ts ek3 srtg thhenid ates, stimulating them, coming up with creative ideas to get companies investing that money they have on their balance sheets. >> david, politicians have been talking about job creation for the last couple of years. right before they took off for five weeks, they were talking about focusing like lasers on jobs, jobs, jobs. and yet, how much can government do? >> government doesn't create jobs that last for the long-term. but they do things that can create an environment, both from a tax policy standpoint, a regulatory policy standpoint, and everything else that will encourage others to create jobs. let me be clear. right now, we need to focus on making sure we don't have a double-dip recession. and to make sure we can get unemployment down. at the same time, we also need to start taking steps to deal with our structural deficits. we don't want to significantly cut spending now because that's contrary to the first objective. we need to do something about entitlement programs, spending and tax policies that will put us on a prudent and sustainable
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path. we need to do both. one now. and the other steps that we take now that will phased in over time. or else, we're going to have bigger problems down the road. >> the problem, and david knows this better than anyone. the problem is, what david's saying makes sense. but there were a whole lot of people who voted against raising that debt ceiling because they don't think you need to increase or even keep spending at the level that it's at now to create jobs.
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so, i don't know how, given what we just went through with the debt ceiling debate, we would get any agreement whatsoever in congress to do any of the stuff you're talking about, david, or the stuff that chrystia's talking about, more spending from the government. unlike during the financial crisis, the federal reserve can't do that anymore on its own. it needs congressional approval. so, the danger we have right now, we're probably headed for, between now and the election, for complete gridlock and inability for the government to do anything to create a environment to invest and create jobs. >> the only thing i would say, ali, is i think shocks like today, have to get politicians thinking. and anderson pointed to the fact we've heard rhetoric of being laser-focused on jobs. we've seen very little concrete action. we could see an extension of the payroll tax break. >> that could help, yeah. >> we could see things that economist bob schiller has suggested, to give businesses tax incentives. he suggested $5,000 for each new person hired. let's see the politicians talk about that. >> david, i want to give you the final thought. >> we need to focus on economic growth and jobs now. and we need -- we have to look at it, not just from a tax standpoint. we have to look at it from a regulatory standpoint. and frankly, the time may have come to consider significant recession to the affordable care act or repeal of the affordable care act. that's a big overhang, as well. and the center for medicare and medicaid services has reaffirmed what i've been saying for a
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while. that bill is going to cost us a tremendous amount of money. and it's going to exacerbate our deficit and debt problems. we ought to nip it in the bud before it's a reality. >> ali, appreciate it. chrystia freeland, thank you. david walker, we'll talk about that coming up. more, next, on how the sell-off could affect president obama next year. stunning new job approvals and disapproval numbers for congress. goes to what ali said about gridlock. and lawmakers finally agreed to fund the faa. we talked about this last night. they all went off on vacation while thousands of airport and construction jobs were on hold. while congress bickered. airline safety inspectors were told to use their credit cards to pay for expenses. later, judgment day for the polygamist leader, warren jeffs, on child rape charges. his bizarre defense. gary tuchman and mike watkiss and his last remaining lawyer, joins us, as well. continuously releases calcium plus d for the efficient absorption my body needs. citracal. from "i like you."
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breaking news tonight. asian markets, tumbling after wall street's dive. and what the numbers mean to president obama's chances next year. and what voters and investors are saying about washington's failure to get their act together. the only bright note, the house and senate reach a compromise on
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funding the faa, but only after totally crewing up things in the first place. it's becoming to be a pattern. >> we're a very powerful, if not the most powerful country in the world. and if the country cannot make decisions, about how it spends money, or how it deals with its basic problems, but instead, squabbles with scapegoating, finger-pointing and blaming, i think that is an ominous sign going forward. >> california governor, jerry brown. new polling from "the new york times" and c-best news, reflecting that sentiment. 14% approve of the job lawmakers in washington is doing. athletes foot polls higher than congress. and president obama's job approval rating is 48%, which is slightly better than last fall.
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the pivotal state of florida shows president obama in a dead-heat with mitt romney. and again, we get new numbers tomorrow on job creation. and the economic forecast doesn't look good. joining us now, gloria bolger. cornell belcher. and erick erickson. erick, there's been so much focus on the long-term spending problem. the debt ceiling fight. our problem right now is a weak economy, it seems like. >> you know, anderson, it's been frustrating for me, during some of the conversations on the debt ceiling during the past two weeks. journalists in washington focused on the stock market, as if the debt ceiling had everything to do with it. for example, last friday, the stock market fell. the reporting out of washington, it was the uncertainty over the debt ceiling. the growth numbers came back horrible. they were expecting 1.6% growth. it was 1.3%. they were downgraded last quarter.
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there's a sense in washington that everything revolves around washington. it's always been about the economy. and it's going to keep being about the economy. if there's a bright lining, and a silver lining, and there's not really one, is most of the problems in the stock market are about europe and other places. >> cornell, for president obama, this is a huge issue. he's been talking about a big job push. how much can he really do? i mean, where do you see him going with this? >> well, i'm going to agree with my friend, erick, before i attack him. the thing is, you know, we've been focused for the last month on deficit and cuts. we did that and joe blow middle
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america scratched their head. they're worried about putting gas in their car. however, we've been focused completely on the deficit and not jobs and the economy because of the tea party element, sort of used the debt ceiling as a hostage-taking maneuver, in order to focus on the deficit. and the bottom line is, the deficit hasn't laid off one worker. the deficit hasn't closed one factory and shipped it overseas. the deficit hasn't foreclosed on one house. that's why you see those disapproval numbers the way they are right now because washington isn't focused on jobs right now. they've been focusing on the deficit like an obsession. >> go ahead, gloria. >> i think that washington was focusing on the deficit because when you look at the polling numbers, and this goes for the white house, as well as republicans in congress and democrats in congress. people said they cared about the deficit. and so, what you saw and the last election was a reaction against the perceived big spending of barack obama, right? and the stimulus. they do a pendulum swing back. they talk about, we're going to cut the deficit and have some stability in the economy, so
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wall street will react. and of course, as erick, pointed out, wall street discounted it, because they figured when they folk up one day, we would raise the debt ceiling. it was a miscalculation. >> i have to push back on you a little, gloria. i haven't seen poll where's the deficit ranks higher for voters than the economy and jobs. that's not just now. but going back even before the elections. i think americans have been focused on jobs and economy like a laser beam. but washington has not. they've been focused on the deficit and spending. >> erick, when you hear politicians on both sides talking about, we're focused on jobs, do you believe they can
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create jobs? >> no. that's a lot of what plays into this. i remember election night on 2010. most of the democrats on cnn that night, say they believed they got the policy right and the message wrong, which ironically is what a lot of republicans are saying right now. but there was reaction i think among the voters. and exit polls show that people thought the policy was wrong. and washington thought spending was the problem. when politicians say what government can do for you, i grab my wallet and run. i don't believe that washington can create jobs. and if people do believe that washington can create jobs, look at the two years that the democrats controlled the congress and the white house and passed the stimulus plan. it didn't create jobs. it killed jobs in the private sector, according to economists and a study out of the university of ohio. >> i have to push back on that a little bit. it is standard economic policy. this ideal that if you take money out of the economy right now, you're going to slow growth. it's the same sort of thing we saw back in the great depression with fdr. they took money out of the economy and it slowed down. and they had to rebound and try to fix that. right now, the markets are reacting because they know we're slashing and taking a lot of money out of the economy for ideological purpose. and the economy's going to slow down because of it. >> but that's barack obama's political problem, though, isn't it? on the one hand, he wants to be pro-growth. on the other hand, he's embraced fiscal restraint. so, can he now turn around and say, okay. we have to give money for payroll tax holiday, unemployment insurance, infrastructure bank, et cetera, et cetera. maybe business tax credits. you know, it's very difficult because the public will say, which side of this fight are you
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on, right? and he's always tried to walk that fine line down the middle saying, we've got to restrain, you know, spending. but also, we have to spend in order to grow. and so, it's not a clear message. >> but there's a bigger problem here, as well. and i mean, not to quote jeremiah wright. but the chickens are coming home to roost for both parties right now. if you were to take 100% of the income of people making $250,000 a year or more. 100% of their income, you get $1.3 trillion. the budget deficit is $1.6 trillion. unless we go after the middle class and find money there, as well, we're going to have to make cuts. if we're not going to make them now because it will hurt the economy, are we going to rebound bill clinton's chief of economic counsel, laura tyson, because washington can't get its act together one way or another. >> you're going to quote a clinton economic adviser. i'm now going to quote a reagan economic adviser. who said, you know, it's ridiculous. ronald reagan would do today what he did back then and raise revenues. you cannot get to -- you cannot get at this problem without raising revenues. >> are you talking about david
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stockton? >> you cannot cut this problem away. >> ronald reagan would have raised the debt ceiling, too. >> erick, do you believe ronald reagan would have raised revenues? >> i don't think he would have raised taxes, not in a situation like this. remember, he jump-started the economy, in '84, by the big tax cuts. but revenue came in through the tax cuts. but the problem is, if you did this, though, we're at $14 trillion of national debt now. and this plan goes into effect, as designed, we'll add another $12 trillion. at what point are we bankrupt? >> but he did raise revenues. and here's my question to republicans.
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you know, what was so wrong to going back to the tax and spending policies of bill clinton? remember peace and prosperity? >> i have the answer to this one, cornell. >> okay. >> let's say we go back to clinton's tax breaks. we go back to clinton's economy, by the way, which brought more revenue into the government than any other time in american history. that was still only 21% of gross domestic product. and the government is spending 27% of gross domestic product. so, the government will have to cut 5% to equal the tax revenue. >> when the economy grows, you get more revenues, right? >> exactly. but historically, gloria, from the moment the income tax was implemented in the early 1900s until now, the most the government has seen in tax
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revenue has been 21%. the most ever in this country's history has been 21%. we're spending 27% of gross domestic product. >> cornell, i have to give you the final thought here. >> we can't cut away, cut ourselves to a solution here. and certainly we can't cut away our future, which is what we threaten to do when we start to cut away pell grants and lunch programs and the things that build our future. we have to win the future. we can't cut that away. >> cornell belcher, gloria borger, erick erickson. interesting, thank you. the jury in the warren jeffs assault trial reaches a verdict, after one of the strangest legal arguments in history. we'll get the details in the courtroom. plus, what the verdict and possible life sentence means for the future of jeffs' polygamist sect. plus, disturbing reports that the military clampdown in syria is reaching a new level of brutality. coming up, breaking news, a verdict in the sexual assault trail of polygamist leader, warren jeffs. after a bizarre closing argument from jeffs himself. tom foreman joins us on "360." tom? with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? it's the cleanest, clearest water. we find the best, sweetest crab for red lobster we can find. yeah! [ male announcer ] hurry in to crabfest at red lobster. the only time you can savor three sweet alaskan crab entrees all under $20, like our hearty crab
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coming up, breaking news, a verdict in the sexual assault trail of polygamist leader, warren jeffs. after a bizarre closing argument from jeffs himself. tom foreman joins us on "360." tom? >> another deadly day in the syrian city of hamama. 109 people were killed in and around the city on the fourth day of ramadan. hamama is the center of the anti-government movement there. and there's been days of deadly crackdowns during demonstrations. one of the most does despised members of hosni mubarak's inner circle was in court today. mubarak could be executed if he
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is convicted. and a vial of serial killer ted bundy's blood, could help solve some cold cases dating back as far as the 1960s. the vial has been recovered from an evidence lab in florida and will be entered in the fbi's dna system. bundy was executed in 1989 for three murders. when he was convicted, dna typing was not widely used. anderson? >> interesting. i would think that they would have his blood in storage. great they were able to find some. >> you would think. but sometimes old evidence like that, they just found it. yeah. breaking news, we're following a texas jury found polygamist sect leader, warren jeffs, guilty of two sexual assault charges on a child. they reached after four hours after a closing argument from jeffs set the bar for bizarre. he spent most of his allotted 30 minutes completely silent. it was the latest jaw-dropping moment in a trial full of them. one of the most disturbing came yesterday when jurors heard an audiotape of jeffs supposedly having sex with a 12-year-old girl.
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the charges come after a raid on his ranch in eldorado, texas. you probably remember the raid. hundreds of kids were removed in that raid but later returned. jeffs who remains his a prophet, represented himself. and one point, he said that god would strike down everyone involved, if the trial continued. the same 12 jurors that convicted jeffs will also sentence him to possibly life in prison. the penalty phase has begun and is expected to last two or three days. let's talk to gary tuchman and investigative reporter mike watkiss, who has been covering jeffs for years. was the closing argument probably the most bizarre moment in this most bizarre of trials? >> a strange trial. it was the strangest part of the trial, anderson. warren jeffs was told by the judge, you have 30 minutes for your closing arguments. he never denied the sexual assault charges. he got up for his 30-minute closing arguments and was quiet for the first minute. he was quiet for five more minutes. never said a word.
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there were 200 people in the courtroom. we were looking at each other. the jurors were looking at jeffs. it was completely quiet, dead quiet, for 24 minutes. then, warren jeffs turned to the right. that's where the jury was sitting. and he slowly moved his head and he looked every juror in the eye, completely creeped the jurors out. and then, he turned his head back to the judge. and he had a four-word quote. i am at peace. and then sat down. now, it's unlikely he would have been found not guilty in this case. but looking at the jurors like that, with that look, didn't help his case at all. >> mike, i was curious about your thoughts. gary has been reporting on this for us for years. you were following it for years before that. what did you think when you finally heard the verdict? >> well, i'm not a bit surprised in watching mr. jeffs' performance in the court today. i heard one of his standby lawyers say that he meant no slight to the court with his silence. and i would strongly beg to differ. i think it shows his utter contempt and disdain for this entire process. his disdain for the charges.
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the jury, certainly the judge, barbara walther, who i think has shown extraordinary patience and really exemplary judicial wisdom in handling this difficult matter. this is a woman he threatened and belittled. and what did he say? he said i am at peace. he's at peace, like he's the only person that matters here. when he was in the courtroom, he never referred to the two young girls that he raped. the charges against him. you know, i just think it's another window on the soul of a totally self-possessed man. >> mike, you have sources who say for the penalty phase, we should strap in our seat belts. what are you hearing? >> a source close to this case has told me, they had much greater latitude in the sentencing. basically, they would open up all the issues. the myriad of wrongdoing that mr. jeffs has committed to his own followers. bear in mind, his victims are the people who worship him.
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breaking up families. men had their families taken away. and killed themselves, the boys cast aside. so, they had to focus on the charges involving these two, young girls. now, they have much greater latitude. and this source tells me, you ain't seen nothing yet if you think this trial was gut-wrenching and bizarre because they have a lot greater flexibility to introduce a lot more evidence. >> gary, what do we know about the victims at the center of this case? >> yeah. the two victims, and this is a very interesting part of this case, did not testify. they got guilty verdicts without the victims testifying. they're now 16 and 21 years old in real life. they did not testify because they're too scared to. we believe they're still members of the flds. you may wonder, how are they doing? we asked the attorney general of texas how are they doing? and he said, we have reason to believe they're safe. that means to me, there's a lot of good people in the flds that are not like warren jeffs.
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and it appears to us the authorities know they are with reasonable people, reasonable family members within the flds. >> mike, what happens to jeffs now. there is the penalty phase. are there other trials elsewhere? >> well, there's five more men who are going to be tried here in the state of texas. four more men, excuse me. they've already convicted seven. mr. jeffs is now the eighth. they're serving very significant prison terms. and the attorney general here in texas, greg abbott, said today, this is very much an ongoing investigation. you know, for somebody who has been doing it for as long as i have, i hope that everybody sort of wakes up and recognizes that these are chronic and systematic abuses. and that when the cameras go away and the satellite trucks go away, these guys will go back. and gary's right. i met some of the smartest, nicest people inside that community. but they have a real bad leadership. and they have always had bad leaders. i don't think there was a nuance or an utterance in that court that was new. this stuff has been going on for years. and hopefully, we have reached critical mass and people are going to start holding these men accountable.
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>> gary, you know, we've watched you over the years being chased off their territory. having doors slammed in your face. what did you think when you heard the verdict? >> no surprise about the verdict. the surprise was that he represented himself and he came off looking very foolish and stupid. i mean, the fact is, when you represent yourself and all you keep saying over again -- it was like watching the movie "rain man," with dustin hoffman. he just kept repeating over and over. this is an assault on my religion. an assault on my religion. never mentioned the girls. we speculated for years how many wives warren jeffs has. we don't know for sure. today, in the beginning of the sentences phase, we finally found out the answer. prosecutors revealed that they believe warren jeffs has 79 wives. one legal wife. and then, 78 celestial wives. in addition to that, more importantly, the prosecutor said 24 of his wives, 24 of his 79 wives, he married under the age of 18.
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>> gary, appreciate it. mike watkiss, thank you so much. more on the breaking news ahead. gary takes us inside a town where loyalty to warren jeffs runs so deep, that local police look the other way when flds crosses the line. a lot of them are members. plus, warren jeffs lawyer joins me. she didn't represent him in court. but he is still her client. also, four masked men who stormed the house of a florida couple, get their fate, for their role in a grisly double-murder. it's time for a better snack. here, try this. it's yoplait greek. it has two times the protein of regular yogurt. you'll feel satisfied. [ female announcer ] yoplait greek. it is so good. it's pretty good!
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it is so good. we'll never stop sharing our or getting lost in a good book. we'll always cook dinner, and cheer for our favorite team. we'll still go to meetings, make home movies, and learn new things. but how we do all this, will never be the same.
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gary tuchman, talking to one of warren jeffs' followers. we were talking to gary earlier. she expects to get married and share her husband with sister
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wives, however many as she can get. this is typical of jeffs' followers. a jury found the polygamist sex leader guilty of child sexual assault. jeffs could get a life sentence. what that may mean for his estimated 10,000 followers is uncertain. gary, as we were talking about earlier, has been following the story for years. and jeffs is determined to lead
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his church, the flds, from prison. gary learned, for example, while awaiting trial, jeffs used thousands of dollars worth of phone cards to stay in touch with church members. his followers are spread across several states in america. isolated by choice and hostile to outsiders. in towns like colorado city, arizona, even local law enforcement is loyal to jeffs and his sect. here's gary tuchman, once again. >> i've never seen it like this before. i've been here for seven years. and i've never seen things so unstable. and so lawless. i consider this the most lawless town in the country. >> reporter: sam brower is a private investigator and writer, who has been following the polygamist sect closely for nearly a decade. and has written a book on the flds, called "prophet's prey." do you think there's comparisons to be made to the taliban? or the mafia? >> absolutely. even the utah attorney general has stated that the flds in this community is run taliban-style. and that's really all the flds church is, in my opinion. is an organized crime family. >> reporter: attorneys for the breakaway sect says that kind of assertion is nonsense.
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that the leaders and followers who live here, want to be left alone, to practice their religion as they see fit. but real violence, according to some neighbors, has crept into the community. this burned out patch of grass in the town of colorado city, arizona, is evidence of what authorities say is a very disturbing example. arizona state investigators say flds leaders burned dozens of books here, rather than let an open library be built. why? they believe those books were collected by infidels. >> they burnt things that didn't belong to them. they broke and entered the building. >> reporter: former flds member, stefanie colgrove, said she worked for more than two years to collect books for the library. a library independent of the church. what did they do with the books?
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>> they hauled them out of the building. >> reporter: then, what did they do with them? >> we assumed they were burnt. we saw a massive bonfire and assume all of this is on the pile because we saw books in the burning pile. >> reporter: the library invaders certainly didn't worry about covering their tracks. this is the remnants of one of the charred books. looks like a medical textbook. county investigators say the local police in colorado city are all members of the flds and have ignored the arson. those local police have not returned our calls. it's the county authorities who have worked to crackdown on the church. so, you're with the county. and they're the local police. and normally, 99.9% of the time, police all work together. you don't work with these guys, do you? >> not at all. can't even get them to talk to me most of the time. >> reporter: that's because, according to mohave county chief investigator, gary engles, local authorities obey the church leaders first. in your eyes are their allegiance to the united states? or to the flds? >> i believe their allegiance is to the church. they were promised to swear allegiance to warren in one of their church meetings not too long ago. >> reporter: when we asked local police for a comment, they did not respond. gary tuchman, cnn, colorado city, arizona. as we said, warren jeffs worked as his own lawyer for his defense trial. and he dismissed his defense team. emily detoto was on that team. she joins me now, along with flora jessop. what was your reaction today to the verdict? >> i am elated. i'm happy for all of his victims. and for the many that he didn't get a chance to abuse because he
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has been in jail for five years. and i'm just looking forward to move forward and trying to help as many of these women and children that we can. >> emily, today, jeffs stared down the judge and each jury member during his closing arguments. do you know why he did that? >> first of all, good evening. >> sorry. i was talking to his attorney. i'm sorry. just hold on there, flora. >> okay. sorry. >> that's okay. >> first of all, good evening, anderson. >> hey. >> you stated that he stared
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down the judge and the jurors today. while i was not in the courtroom during his closing argument, i have spoken with several people who were, in fact, in the courtroom during that. during his closing argument. and i would have to disagree with your characterization of the fact that he stared them down. having spent as much time as i have with mr. jeffs, he is a very quiet person. and he actually thinks deeply before he speaks. and so -- >> well, he raped two children. and he's been convicted of raping two children. so, i mean, whether he stared down or -- he stared at the jurors for a significant amount
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of time in silence. do you know why he did that? >> well, i understand -- if we want to -- he is not a skilled trial lawyer, first of all. he has never given closing arguments before. never given opening statements before. never direct -- >> but he chose to act as a juror. you said he's a smart man and well thought-out man. he's clearly thought this out. do you know why he thought out to stare at the jurors in silence? >> well, i believe -- i can't go behind his reasoning for looking each juror in the eye. but i can tell you, as a skilled
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trial lawyer, what i do when i approach closing arguments, is i engage each individual juror to acknowledge them before i speak to them, to make sure i have their attention. now, mr. jeffs is not a trial attorney. i cannot speak to why he would look each juror in the eye. but i can tell you, he's a man who thinks deeply before he opens his mouth. and, yes, he did choose to represent himself. that choice was freely, knowingly, voluntarily undertaken. it's a choice i support. supported and do continue to support. but to characterize him as staring down the judge or the jury, i would disagree. >> do you think he deeply thought it out when he -- basically, when he seemed to
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make a threat or a veiled threat of mocked her medical condition, the fact she had polio, when he referred to a wasting disease that would descend upon her? was that wise? >> why i cannot speak to his reasoning behind those choice of words, i can direct you to various religious readings, where in people who choose to persecute others, inevitably are stricken with diseases and/or death. that is all i will say on that topic. >> wait. i don't understand what you just said. >> what i'm saying is, i did not write the motion to recuse, the one that you're referring to where he allegedly threatened to bring down a disease on judge walther. but what i can tell you, is through my interaction, through my investigation with this case, and my exposure to different readings, religious readings, it has been shown throughout time that those who do choose to persecute others, inevitably befall something -- something. and i'll leave it at that. >> so, you're saying, based on your religious readings, you've discovered that people who persecute others get wasting diseases? >> no. what you'rasnge t i cannot do that because i was not privy to that motion to recues. >> you seem to know about his thought process by your own words. i'm wondering if you knew his thought process. you clearly don't. flora, do you understand what he
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was trying to do in court, by remaining silent? by staring down or at the jurors? by, you know, suggesting that the judge was going to get a wasting disease? a judge who experienced polio earlier in her life? >> you know, i found that to be very disturbing, anderson. and the quote -- the comments about judge walther. and as far as staring down the judge and the jury, you know, he is used to having 10,000 people do his bidding and bow at his feet. and i think he kind of maybe thought that with his sermonizing and reading of his scripture, with his witness on the stand, that he maybe was thinking maybe he had convinced these people that he was just doing his sacred, religious beliefs. that they needed to send him on home and quit this nonsense. just the fact that there were ten women on that jury and the
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judge was a woman was the greatest of insults. to warren jeffs. >> emily, do you think he plans to appeal? >> well, he certainly has the right to appeal. i cannot foresee any reason why he would not choose to exercise that right to appeal. having been there from the beginning of this litigation, which began -- well, the beginning of my involvement, which was the second recusal hearing, which occurred on july 18th. said motion was denied on july 19th. i believe there's enough issues there in the record that would certainly merit an appeal. >> emily detoto, appreciate your time. thank you. flora jessop, thank you. still ahead, a security scare at virginia tech. 4 years after a gunman killed 32 people. campus alert, warning a man may be on campus with a gun. we'll tell you what happened. n. and nature...approves. ♪ granola thins. from nature valley. nature at its most delicious.
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it's true. you never forget your first subaru. unlike fish oil, megared softgels are small and easy to swallow with no fishy smell or aftertaste. try megared today. tom foreman joins us with the "360" news bulletin. tom? a tense day on the virginia tech campus. an alert was issued after a man was on campus, possibly carrying a gun. summer school students were told to stay indoors. and classes were canceled. after several hours of
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searching, no gunman was found and the alert was dropped. in 2007, you may recall, a gunman opened fire, fatally shooting 32 people before killing himself. in florida, four men were sentenced for their role in that deadly raid a couple years back. reach sentenced from 17 1/2 to 22 years. in 2009, the masked men stormed on to the property of byrd and melanie billings. the couple was murdered while their nine adopted special needs children were at home. chrysler is recalling almost 300,000 minivans because the air bags may deploy unexpectedly. the recall affects the 2008 models of dodge grand caravan, chrysler town and country, and grand voyager. and scientists have found possible evidence that salt water exists on mars during its warmer months. that is raising chances that life exists on the red planet. they examined images from nasa's spacecraft orbiting mars that show dark lines in the terrain,
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that grow and shrink, depending on the season. that could indicate some kind of salt water there. very exciting news, anderson. very cool. >> exciting. we'll be right back. until she heard about the value plan. and saving money with allstate doesn't stop there... kim and james are what you might call overly protective. especially behind the wheel. nothing wrong with that. in fact, allstate gives them a bonus -- twice a year -- for being safe drivers. dollar for dollar, nobody protects you like allstate. with aveeno nourish plus moisturize. active naturals wheat formulas target and help repair damage in just 3 washes. for softer, stronger... ... hair with life. [ female announcer ] nourish plus. only from aveeno.
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♪ there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] the new citi thankyou premier card gives you more ways to earn points. what's your story? citi can help you write it. if you're worried about your 401(k) and other investments after massive losses on wall street. the dow plunging more than 500 points, wiping out all gains for the entire year. the public increasingly weary how the government is controlling its finances. clark howard is a consumer advocate, author of the new book, "living large in lean times." he's host of the hln show, "clark howard." i spoke to clark about his new book and how america can get its fiscal house in order. when you see the debt ceiling drama going on, this is a perfect time for you to come out with a book. everybody wants to know how to
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live large in the lean times. >> right. we're dealing with this at every level of government in people's own lives. we went through a long time period in america where we overobligated ourselves as individuals. government at all levels, really overpromised. we're dealing with this at every level of government in people's own lives. we went through a long time period in america where we overobligated ourselves as individuals. government at all levels, really overpromised. now, the bills are coming due. and just as we saw the struggle in washington, to try to figure out who's going to take the hit,
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the reality is, it's so much easier in your own life. in your own life, when you change how you handle money, there's a direct reward to you. >> right. >> obviously, when washington changes something, it doesn't work like that. >> someone said to me or i read somewhere, that not spending money is also saving money. it changed the way i thought about it. and i enjoy not spending money on things. >> what i've tried to do this time is lay out steps that are like beginner steps. how do you start to stretch every buck you have with little, everyday things. >> what are some of the things? >> first, with every day, when you're walking around, if you have no idea where your money goes through, a pay period cycle, get a little, tiny, three-ring notebook.
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the find you can put in your pocket. a women in their purse. >> i did that. and it's shocking. >> it is stunning. money vanishes that you don't even realize. and if somebody can't seem to get control and they think they've solved the problem by getting a doesn't card instead of a credit card and they still don't have a sense of control, what i want people to do is go to cash. figure out -- let's say you get paid twice a month. the 15th and 30th of the month. on the 15th, you take out a certain amount of cash that you have decided you're going to live on for your walking around money for that next two weeks or so. and that has got to last you. >> on tv now, especially on the reality shows, we see all these people who are literally living large. i mean -- >> right. >> and it's like the real housewives. >> all flash, no cash.

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